Showing posts with label Spencer. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Spencer. Show all posts

Thursday, May 28, 2009

It looks to me like a very normal cyclical development.

From The Angry Bear:

"Yield Curve

By Spencer:

The yield curve is strongly positive, and this is getting all kinds of blog comments.

They range from Arnold Kling saying "in my view, this is perfectly rational, and it shows that the short-run effect of the fiscal stimulus is negative"

To Greg Mankiw saying "that it signals future economic growth. In many ways, however, this is an unusual downturn, so it is not entirely clear to what extent historical relationships are a useful guide going forward'


It looks to me like a very normal cyclical development. For example according to this traditional indicator of what drives the yield curve the surprise ought to be that the yield curve is so flat.

I'm inclined to go along with Mankiw on this one and can not understand how this support Kling's conclusion that this demonstrates that the impact of fiscal stimulous is negative.

After responding in the comments section I thought I would add this chart to demonstrate my point. At the bottom in December the bond market was discounting a deflationary, depression.
Now it is discounting an economic recovery. It is a normal cyclical development.



Me:

Don the libetarian Democrat says:
Today, 3:33:25 PM
I don't understand the problem. From the point of incentives, you want:
1) Short term rates to stay low, giving investors a disincentive to buy govt bonds, but rather stocks and corporate bonds.
2) Longer term interest rates to be rising, so that investors will buy longer term bonds and feel confident about a recovery.
Both of these are designed to attack the Fear and Aversion to Risk, which Bernanke believes is central to this crisis. I don't know what people expected, but that's what's happening, and I think that it's working. Slowly.
Similarly, infrastructure investment is meant to show confidence in the future. A tax break for investment would presumably also be to attack the Fear and Aversion to Risk, by providing an incentive to invest now. I also favored a Sales Tax Holiday, to give people an incentive to spend now.
I can see people disagreeing with my views, but I don't see that they are a priori false.
By the way, this seems to follow from remarks by investors like James Grant, who see the current situation as a buying and investing opportunity, especially for Value Investors.

Don the libetarian Democrat says:
Today, 7:03:34 AM
"Rising long term interest rates will stifle both the economy and corporate profitability."


It 'will' at some point, but we are nowhere near those rates of interest yet.

"both could be happening at the same time. "I think it is probably a little bit of both, discounting the supply of new debt, but I detect...there is a pick up in confidence about the future," said Fisher."

Thanks for the reference. That's what I'm saying. This is how it's going to work. We've just gone through a panic. Investors are still overreacting at the slightest doubt, which is why they're worried about much higher interest rates going forward. Yet, it is also showing confidence about the future, which is how it's supposed to work. The connection with interest rates on home loans is a little more problematic. It doesn't mean that they'll have to shoot up immediately, but, eventually, they will rise. By the way, I don't think holding down mortgage rates is a good idea.


Tuesday, January 13, 2009

So I tried to reproduce the chart and came up with something that looks like this.

From Spencer on Angry Bear:

"Honest Research?

By Spencer

This chart from the Minneapolis Federal Reserve is starting to appear on various web site.

Minneapolis Fed

Among others, Alex Tabarrok of Marginal Revolution published it.

Marginal Revolution


It is an interesting looking chart, very similar to many I do.

But it struck me as odd, there was something wrong with it.

I can not remember a single recession where employment did not fall as this chart shows.

So I tried to reproduce the chart and came up with something that looks like this.

Source: www.bls.gov via Haver Analytics

Note that it shows the 2001 recession as the mildest recession and it did experience falling employment. This line as well my line for the harshest recession in 1957 are very different
than the chart published by the Minneapolis Federal Reserve and referenced by several
libertarian/conservative blogs. Their harshest is about a full percentage point deeper than mine.

But the Minneapolis Fed did publish their original work and I was able to determine that there chart was not of an actual recession. Rather their lines representing the mildest and harshest recessions are completely artificial creations that have little or no relation to any actual historic event.

Rather than show the 2001 recession as the mildest recession, they went through all of the first months of the 10 post WW II recession and found the smallest observation and made that the first observation of their mildest recession line. Next they went through the second month of the ten recession and found the smallest observation in the second month of recessions and made that the second month of their mildest recession. They repeated this process for 18 times, each time making the smallest observation of that particular recession month for their line of the mildest recession. So their line might take observation one from 1957, observation two from 1981, observation three from 1973, etc., etc., . Their so called harshest recession line was created using the same methodology.

Here is exactly how they described the lines in their publication:

This page places the current economic downturn into historical (post-WWII) perspective. It compares output and employment changes during the present recession with the same data for the 10 previous recessions that have occurred since 1946.

This page provides a current assessment of “how bad" the recession is relative to past recessions. It will be updated as new data are released. This page does not provide forecasts, and the information should not be interpreted as such.

The following charts provide information about both the length and depth of recessions.

Minneapolis Fed

This strikes me as a major case of intellectual dishonesty. At no point is the reader shown that their mildest and harshest recessions are completely artificial creations that have no relation to any actual recession.( THIS IS BAD IF TRUE )

The other point that strikes me is how libertarian/conservatives like Alex Tabarrock uncritically accept such biased research from fellow right wing sources without any question. It strikes me that a tenured, PhD, economist should know that there was no post WW II US recession where employment did not fall and should have recognized that there was something wrong with this chart. But more than likely, this chart will now be passed around and used by libertarian/conservatives to demonstrate that there was a post WWII recession where employment did not fall and that will become one of their standard talking points.

Am I being too harsh on the Minneapolis Fed and people who uncritically accept and pass on such biased research?

P.S. This is not the first time I have caught the Minneapolis Fed or Alex Tabarrock misrepresenting data.


"

I don't put too much stock in government statistics. They are of limited use. However, the objections to this research seem to make sense. Also, it fits in with my belief that it is too soon to tell where we are going in this downturn. I, of course, hope for a much easier time this year than others, if the correct policies are put in place.