Showing posts with label Curious Capitalist. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Curious Capitalist. Show all posts

Monday, April 27, 2009

Geithner saw the severity of the crisis before others in government did

TO BE NOTED:

The Curious Capitalist - TIME.com

Breaking news: Tim Geithner goes to lots of meetings

I'm sitting in a gigantic ballroom at the Beverly Hilton in Beverly Hills, waiting for a Milken Institute Global Conference panel on when the financial recovery is coming. But I've already breezed through Jo Becker and Gretchen Morgenson's epic examination of Tim Geithner's lunch dates while he was president of the New York Fed.

In general it was pretty unremarkable: The president of the New York Fed should spent much of his/her time meeting with bankers. The two things that struck me as interesting were that:

1) Geithner's relationship with Sandy Weill was awfully close. Weill even wanted Geithner to succeed Chuck Prince as Citigroup CEO. Geithner was smart enough to say he'd be no good for the job. But Weill has not come out of this crisis looking great, and Geithner's apparent decision to adopt Weill as his mentor seems like evidence of somewhat questionable judgment.

2) Geithner urged last June that the government guarantee all the debt in the banking system. If that had been done at the time, I think it's reasonable to say that we would not now be in the worst economic crisis since the Depression. I'm sure we'd have lots of other problems, but still: Geithner saw the severity of the crisis before others in government did."

Me:

  1. donthelibertariandemocrat Says:

    I posted a defense of Geithner on the NY Times today:

    "Timothy F. Geithner, who as president of the New York Federal Reserve Bank oversaw many of the nation's most powerful financial institutions, stunned the group with the audacity of his answer. He proposed asking Congress to give the president broad power to guarantee all the debt in the banking system, according to two participants, including Michele Davis, then an assistant Treasury secretary.

    The proposal quickly died amid protests that it was politically untenable because it could put taxpayers on the hook for trillions of dollars.

    “People thought, ‘Wow, that's kind of out there,' ” said John C. Dugan, the comptroller of the currency, who heard about the idea afterward. Mr. Geithner says, “I don't remember a serious discussion on that proposal then.”

    This is not my interpretation of what Geithner was proposing. He was proposing a full guarantee on the system in order to keep a panic and debt-deflationary spiral from occurring. The whole point of the guarantee would be to stop investors from panicking and allow a more orderly unwinding of positions. It is an attempt to save money, by not allowing the economy, unemployment, investment, etc., to explode. It is best done at the beginning of a financial crisis in order to alleviate its severity, since, everyone should know this, the government will intervene if the crisis is bad enough.

    Too bad no one understood or accepted the proposal.

    Don the libertarian Democrat

    — Don, Tacoma, WA
    Recommend Recommended by 7 Readers

    People got huge numbers of recommendations for poisoning the well and slogans. Maybe I'm not Godel, but neither were other people commenting.

    Anyway, let's go through this: If you feel that letting Lehman go was a good idea, and that AIG, etc., should have just crashed, whatever that would have meant, more power to you. I don't agree, but I understand.

    But if you think that Lehman should have been saved, then you must believe that either the govt should have given them a loan or helped the B of A merge with them. Those were the actual choices. Hey, isn't that Geithner's view?

    What about Fannie/Freddie? You might believe with me that explicitly guaranteeing them might have stopped the flight from agencies occurring. Hey, isn't that Geithner's view?

    If you are a follower of Fisher, and fear a Calling Run, and believe that only a full govt guarantee can stop it, then, hey, that's Geithner's view, isn't it?

    In fact, if you were, like me, calling for a Swedish type solution in September, you were assuming that the govt was going to guarantee everything a la Sweden, weren't you? Hey, isn't that Geithner's view?

    If you believe that AIG needed to be saved after Lehman, and Merrill as well, and we now know that the only real plan was to merge a large failing financial institution with another, like Bear, WaMu,Merrill, the attempt at Lehman, wouldn't you have expected the govt that week to try like hell and get a merger? Hey, isn't that Geithner's view?

    What exactly are the people opposing what I just said arguing? I'm for:
    1) Narrow Banking
    2) A self-insured investment sector that's well-supervised
    3) Quantitative Easing
    4) Stamping
    5) A large stimulus
    6) A very robust social safety net
    The only way to have stopped the Calling Run, onset of Debt-Deflation, was a total govt guarantee. No one else has the resources to stop one. Period. Also, Debt-Deflation has no natural stopping point. It has no natural stopping point for unemployment or wealth loss, and is not predictable. It is inherently unpredictable.

    If you're not afraid of that, well then, fine. But I am. It has nothing to do with what I want. The main economists I'm relying on are Milton Friedman and Irving Fisher. This situation is too complex and messy to pick easy positions.

    It's been trial and error because that's how a govt with different interests, etc., works.

Monday, March 30, 2009

I don't get why we keep having this misleading back and forth on whether to nationalize the banks or not

From The Curious Capitalist:

"Newsweek on Krugman and the nationalization non-debate

Evan Thomas's Newsweek cover story on Paul Krugman is timely, and—as with everything Thomas does—elegantly executed. I especially liked this passage:

If you are of the establishment persuasion (and I am), reading Krugman makes you uneasy. You hope he's wrong, and you sense he's being a little harsh (especially about Geithner), but you have a creeping feeling that he knows something that others cannot, or will not, see. By definition, establishments believe in propping up the existing order. Members of the ruling class have a vested interest in keeping things pretty much the way they are. Safeguarding the status quo, protecting traditional institutions, can be healthy and useful, stabilizing and reassuring. But sometimes, beneath the pleasant murmur and tinkle of cocktails, the old guard cannot hear the sound of ice cracking.

But when the article tries to describe how exactly Krugman's prescription for saving the financial system differs from the Obama administration's, it gets muddled fast:

Krugman's suggestion that the government could take over the banking system is deeply impractical, Obama aides say. Krugman points to the example of Sweden, which nationalized its banks in the 1990s. But Sweden is tiny. The United States, with 8,000 banks, has a vastly more complex financial system. What's more, the federal government does not have anywhere near the manpower or resources to take over the banking system.

Sweden's government took over exactly two banks, one of which was already partly owned by the government. Sweden doesn't have a lot of banks, so this amounted to about a quarter of the assets of the banking system. But taking over a couple of the top-five U.S. banking companies would account for a big chunk of total system assets here. And that's really what the discussion here is about: It's what the government should do with Citi, maybe B of A, maybe a few mid-major banks. A wholesale government takeover of all 8,000 banks is not on anybody's agenda.

Krugman, Simon Johnson and a lot of other people think the government should be moving a lot more quickly and decisively to take over the most troubled banks and clean up their balance sheets. The Treasury approach appears to be to do some work on the balance sheets—through efforts to modify mortgages and buy up toxic assets—and then figure out what to do with the most troubled banking companies. As I've written before, this is really a debate about tactics, not basic questions of finance and economics. The debate involving basic questions of finance and economics is the one that's just getting started about how we regulate the financial sector.

They're not totally unconnected, of course: Johnson has an article in the May Atlantic arguing that a recalcitrant financial oligarchy is standing in the way of solutions on both fronts. But I don't get why we keep having this misleading back and forth on whether to nationalize the banks or not. I don't get why the Obamanites keep using that we're-not-Sweden line, and I don't get why the Krugmanites are so unwilling to see any of the administration's moves as laying the groundwork for possible future nationalizations."

Me:

  1. donthelibertariandemocrat Says:

    Yesterday, I looked back over my commenting, which really began in September. The first comment on the Swedish Plan is from Sept. 23rd, and is in reference to a Dougherty story and Krugman column. The first comment on a TARP hybrid plan is from Sept. 27th when William Gross floated a plan in the WaPo. Here's a posted comment:

    "Saturday, October 4, 2008
    Problems With The Bailout
    From the NY Times article "For Treasury Dept., Now Comes Hard Part of Bailout", I see the following problems with the plan as envisaged:

    1) Possible conflicts of interest with the administrators of the plan.

    2) Overpaying for assets.

    3) Doesn't do enough to ease credit markets or makes it worse.

    4) When the assets are eventually sold, there is a huge and unanticipated loss.

    5) Lobbying by hedge funds, etc.

    Are there others? "

    The first questioning about whether or not the FDIC could do this is from Oct. 9th. The question of big banks and mergers first came up on Oct. 4th, because the Tax provisions in TARP were meant to encourage big banks, mergers, and less competition. The issue of AIG bonuses turns up on Oct. 29th.

    Every comment that I have come across about PPIP so far is a variant of comments from Sept. and Oct. I am for the a version of the Swedish Plan, but I support PPIP for now, even though it's a dreaded hybrid plan. Why?

    1) The govt still can't seize a large bank ( Read The Economics Of Contempt Blog ), although I believe that they're working on it.
    2) Foreign countries like China have made it plain that they want their bonds honored.
    3) Seizing banks like Banamex will involve us in politics in other countries.
    4) Although it's a better deal, we could still lose a lot of money.
    5) Geithner is saying the right things. I have no idea how to test his sincerity except by his actions.
    6) I see the PPIP as helping with QE, albeit in a less than direct manner.
    7) We own a fair amount of these banks and AIG.

    Sad to say, we need to buy time. To me, right now, it's all down to practical politics.